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Terror
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xx Mary Sues do not exsist
« Thread started on: Oct 3rd, 2005, 1:28pm »

Really now, whoever came up with the term Sue, is an idiot. I'm ranting because at school some of my friends are being called a Sue. And I know them, they are not Sues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue_fanfiction

From the wikipedia...

Mary Sue (or simply Sue) is a pejorative expression for a fictional character who is an idealized stand-in for the author, or for a story with such a character.

^ See, fictional!

Originally, the Mary Sue concept came out of Star Trek fan fiction and described an original female character who had a romantic liaison with an established, "canon" character, particularly if she possessed unrealistic or unlikely traits above and beyond those expected of a character in that particular series, or a conventional author surrogate. However, as of 2005 author surrogate characters are also being defined as Mary Sue.

Another definition states that Mary Sue is any original character who possesses unusual qualities, parentage,
or appearance particularly in, but not limited to,
^ Oooooh my gosh! So if you have a talent with something, or your face is deformed than you're a Sue. Oooh my gosh!
science fiction or fantasy, (whether original or fan fiction). By this definition, Ged from Ursula K. LeGuin's Earthsea tales, Lessa of Anne McCaffrey's Pern stories, Vanyel of Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series and Rudyard Kipling's intrepid orphan Kim are all Mary Sues. Some have gone further, changing previously understood definitions, and have begun to define any original characters in fiction as Mary Sue.
Tisk, tisk.

Male "Sues" may be called "Marty Stus", "Murray Stus", "Harry Stus", and/or "Gary Stus", although the original "Mary Sue" term is often considered unisex. A rarer unisex variant is "Airy Ooh". Authors of such characters (of either sex) are sometimes referred to as Suethors.

In fan fiction, Mary Sue characters are usually the original creation of the author, but sometimes "canon Sues" are created by adapting pre-existing canon characters. Conversely, such original or adapted characters are not necessarily Mary Sues. The Peter Jairus Frigate character of the Riverworld series, for instance, is deliberately based on his author but rarely the focus of the story (unlike Tom Sawyer, for instance a Mary Sue by 2005 standards). However, there are a great number of what many fans think of as pre-existing Sues in canon, particularly in Japanese anime cartoons, Japanese manga comic books, and roleplaying video games (which often include complex stories).

Some fan critics believe that young writers tend to create "narcissistic" Sues and "unintentional" Sues (characters that develop into Sues due to the author's supposed subconscious) desires. Some authors now write Mary Sues deliberately as a form of parody.

The stereotypical Mary Sue may be tougher, smarter, and cooler than the established characters and so win their admiration. Alternately, the Sue may be nicer, sweeter, and more charming than the established
Ooook, so having a good heart you're a Mary Sue. Oh, guess we better start murderlizing each other then to escape from Sueism then.
characters (often despite being tortured by a tragic past) and win their love. Either way, the setting's protagonists are upstaged by the new character's perfection. If this new character dies in the story (typically as an act of self-sacrifice), other characters may memorialize her with excessive grieving.

Mary Sue characters are generally marked by overdescription with extraneous, seemingly tacked-on paragraphs describing in great detail their distinctive appearance or possessions, even if they have no significance for the plot and seem out of place. For example, a Mary Sue would not merely be said to carry a gun. The model, color, appearance, and special features of the gun would be described all at once.

Characters who are perceived as Mary Sues are abundant in both fanfiction and actual series, particularly Japanese anime cartoons. Miaka Yūki from Fushigi Yūgi, Hitomi Kanzaki from Vision of Escaflowne, Aerith from Final Fantasy VII, and Lacus Clyne from Mobile Suit Gundam SEED are canonical main characters who demonstrate possession of some, if not all, of the typical Mary Sue traits (arguably, one should expect to find unusual beauty and amazing gifts among anime
^ Cause people can help what they are born with.
characters male or female). Some readers of the Harry Potter series also accuse the characters Hermione Granger (an admitted author surrogate of JK Rowling) and Ginny Weasley of being Mary Sues.

Common traits of Mary Sues:

Has only sympathetic flaws; Mary Sues may be paraplegic, or dangerously nave, but are very rarely selfish or petty-minded. Althernatively, they may be outspoken, even rude, and get away with it.
Can do no wrong - or, if she does do anything wrong, has strong justification for it.
Unique abilities.
Distinctive physical features (odd-coloured eyes, birthmarks, scars, etc.).
Owns an unusual pet (especially, 'one that only she could tame').
Deliberately exotic name.
Name based on that of the author (such as an anagram).
Cultural/racial background very different from her peers (often adopted out of her culture).
Deeply traumatic past.
Attitudes contemporary to the author in a setting where these are unheard of.
Close relationship with a major canonical character (long-lost brother, etc.).
Unwanted connection to a canonical antagonist (virtuous daughter who rebels against her evil father, etc.).
Well-liked by all the canonical protagonists.
Powers or abilities closely paralleling those of a major canon character.
Centrally involved in every part of the story.
Invokes powers impossible (or at least unheard-of) in the canon.
If the published universe is set in a different country to the one the author is from, the Mary Sue will probably be from the author's country of origin.
If much of the tension in a series is largely dependent upon a sequence of ongoing character flaws and misunderstandings (such as the works of Rumiko Takahashi), the Mary Sue character almost invariably possesses a 'big picture' view that allows them to solve all of these little problems, thereby sewing up the series in a happily-ever-after fashion.



And so I've come to a conclusion that Sues do not exsist. Maybe the jerks at school should stop being so ignorant. Because once you think about it, everyone could be labeled a Sue.



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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #1 on: Oct 3rd, 2005, 2:24pm »

heh even I could count as a Mary Sue!

Serousily I think it's dumb to call people Mary Sue heh one of my (evil) friends said my mum is a goth cos her favorite colour is black all I can say is SHE IS NOT A GOTH!

Mum is anything but derpressed
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #2 on: Oct 3rd, 2005, 3:00pm »

whats a marry sue?
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #3 on: Oct 3rd, 2005, 3:04pm »

I didn't know what one is ether click on the link Terra posted it should tell you...
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #4 on: Oct 3rd, 2005, 7:36pm »

Personally, I think that those people at your school are the real Sues, as they have no idea how to use words.

And technically, people can't be called Sues, that's what the CHARATERS are. The authors are Suethors. And they most certainly are NOT how their characters are.

While, of course, the character may be the avatar or fur/scale/feather/whateversona of the author. And that's where we run into problems, as authors will figure they themselves are being insulted.

Heck, technically, people could yell at me, telling me TTE is a Stu because he can travel through time. Of course, I wouldn't take offense, just merely tell them that that's part of my character.

Since it's a free world, all we can do is give out advice to suspected Suethors. It's their choice whether to take it.



And that's all.
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #5 on: Oct 3rd, 2005, 7:52pm »

Hear that wooshing sound? That's the sound of the point flying waaaaay over your head, Terror. >_<

Mary-Sues are fictional. As in, you CANNOT apply them to real life. No matter how much you argue, you cannot apply them to real life. Ever. Your friends were being total youknowwhatholes, but Mary-Sues do exist.

On the Internet. As in, fanfiction and fanart ONLY.

Birthmarks, tragic pasts, and other various oddities in real life don't make you a Sue because some 11-year old dimwit isn't typing up your life from behind a console while chugging down their weight in cola. That's how Sues are made; and they'll never be in real life. (Unless you create a self-insert, but that's also a Sue because basically you're remodelling the entire canon to suit your wishes.)

And thank you for causing me to literally slap my forehead over this sentence:

Quote:
Ooook, so having a good heart you're a Mary Sue. Oh, guess we better start murderlizing each other then to escape from Sueism then.


What part of "THEY'RE KINDER, SWEETER, AND MORE LOVING THAN THE ESTABLISHED CHARACTERS" do you not understand? Take Spyro for example. Even he didn't go "Aw, the poor Gnasty Gnorc. He just had a troubled past. I shouldn't hurt him." (Or replace Gnasty Gnorc with any other villain name.)

Only a Sue would say that.

Let's take it to real life.

"Oh no, the poor Saddam Hussein! He only had a trouble past. Don't worry, all I have to do is get on my magicial pony and fly over to where the meanie USA is holding him so I can give him a great big hug!"

THAT's the Sue form of compassion. The NORMAL form of compassion is realizing that there is some bad in the world and not giving any love to the people that murder thousands of people.

Honestly, I'm thinking about deleting this topic. It's enough to make my head spin with sheer ignorance...>_<
« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2005, 12:32am by Turquoisephoenix » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #6 on: Oct 4th, 2005, 12:45pm »

Heh, heh. Ok dokay. God I'm an idiot sometimes. tongue
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #7 on: Oct 4th, 2005, 1:16pm »

Thanx for enlightening me. My sister is a mary sue.
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #8 on: Oct 4th, 2005, 2:34pm »

on Oct 4th, 2005, 1:16pm, Spyro wrote:
My sister is a mary sue.


Did you NOT read it at all. I don't want to be rude, but seriously. May I please put TP's post into a few sentences for you, just so you understand, eh? "Real People can NOT be Mary Sues. Sues are fictional beings CREATED by real people". There is a difference, it's pretty big.
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #9 on: Oct 4th, 2005, 4:34pm »

Eh, at least I got one thing right.
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #10 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 03:52am »

Yeah, not much to add other than to reinforce that Mary Sues only exist as fictional characters.

There is a name for those who call real people Mary-sues. It's got two words but it isn't "Mary Sue" - it's "delinquent a-holes".

I'm sorry for your friends, Terror, but those people flinging names really need to think about getting some newer and more relevant insults. Insults should aim to exploit certain REAL characteristics of the person being insulted, and in such a way imbarrass them or **** them off.

Those guys are just idiots.
« Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2005, 03:53am by Venom » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #11 on: Oct 11th, 2005, 10:09pm »

You know... You guys don't have to yell at Terror. She's just trying to help!

Edit on Oct.25: Hehe... XD As if Spyro would say "Aww... Poor Red... I think I gave him a boo-boo!" Saying in a very childish voice.
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #12 on: Oct 12th, 2005, 01:36am »

I read a list of traits and WTF that covors most characters that are actually good so once again I say WTF

the term "mary sue" is just a flat out retarded one and personally I think it should be dumped from all RPs but that's just me and I u nderstand I dont hold that power
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #13 on: Oct 12th, 2005, 10:55am »

on Oct 11th, 2005, 10:09pm, Nali wrote:
You know... You guys don't have to yell at Terror. She's just trying to help!


I didn't see it as yelling, I just saw it as disagreeing.
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xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #14 on: Oct 13th, 2005, 4:26pm »

Seemed like yelling to me... >_> <_< What.
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