Board Logo
« Mary Sues do not exsist »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Jan 17th, 2018, 02:52am



« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1 2 3  Notify Send Topic Print
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Mary Sues do not exsist  (Read 2805 times)
SolidDragon
Dragon Elder


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 544
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #15 on: Oct 13th, 2005, 6:49pm »

that list of traits has contradicting stuff and seems to eleminate any cool character that may exsist
User IP Logged

TTEchidna
SFA Founder
SFMasterAdmin


member is offline

Avatar

Happy 15th, Eggman!

AIM
Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1054
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #16 on: Oct 13th, 2005, 11:03pm »

Oh for the love of cheese pizza.


Cool characters can exist, it's just that some fan-made characters in many fandoms (including the Spyro one, if you look back far enough on FFN {and, by the way, even now there are some}) can outshine the main characters, including Spyro himself.

Now, say you have a fancharacter that's more helpful than Elora, smarter than the Professor, a more accurate shot than Hunter, and falls in reciprocate love with Spyro at the minute they lay eyes on each other.

That's the bad part. When the fancharacter outshines the canon.


A cool character can still be cool, but at least give them some flaws.

Example 1: Anakin Skywalker. I assume anyone would consider him to be cool in Episode II and III of Star Wars, but he has a very large flaw. No, not that he's gonna become Darth Vader, but that he fears losing all those he loves. He's believably cool, not a screentime-hogging Gary-Stu.



And this is exactly what you've gotta look out for. Characters can be cool, but no fancharacter should even compete with Spyro.

That is, unless it's the story's plot to do that, and said fancharacter has some flaws, like Spyro does.
User IP Logged

Scientology is evil. Please watch this. This is my only request.

Don't support a thief, everyone has to know that eBaum's World steals! Don't let them hypnotize you!
Nikkola
Former SFAdmin

member is offline

Avatar

True Power lies within, and cannot be reached without hope.


Homepage PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 162
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #17 on: Oct 13th, 2005, 11:15pm »

Hanarf. Nali ain't that bad at helping, but not better than El. Not smarter than the Pro., and is much worse shot than Hunter. Sure I *like* Spyro. But he likes me just as a friend is all.
User IP Logged

"... Once my dad pooped in our neighbor's yard and lied about it."

- Chris Griffin, Family Guy
SolidDragon
Dragon Elder


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 544
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #18 on: Oct 13th, 2005, 11:58pm »

the list said likable flaws are a trait
being based on the person who made them is a trait
being perfect is a trait
having mecha limbs is a trait

I forgot the list but according tot hat list no coolc hara can be anythying but a mary sue ((I did like your anikin example))
User IP Logged

Dixie
Professor


member is offline

Avatar

A figment of your imagination - also the janitor


PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 349
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #19 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 4:48pm »

the list said likable flaws are a trait
A likable flaw, as you put it, would be a flaw which does NOT make the character a problem or add negativity to her/his character. A 'likable' flaw is something like being too pretty, too smart. See what I mean? The flaw just makes the character all the more wonderful. Acceptable flaws are things like making the character an egotist, as this is not something positive. Flaws are easy, there's no excuse for having to make a flaw 'too pretty'.

being based on the person who made them is a trait
It's fine to use parts of yourself and put yourself into the mind of a character, but only when necessary. I put my geekiness into Watrus, for example. However, making a character a carbon copy of yourself, but making them 'cooler', is not right. Because we as people will be biased by the copies and not wish to give them flaws, it's an insult to our wonderful egos.

being perfect is a trait
A bad one, no human being on this Earth is perfect. Not me, not you, not the person you like the most. We all have things which piss other people off. There's things about my friends and family which irritate me, to make a character loved by all and not have any canon characters get annoyed by SOMETHING of the Sue is annoying for the reader. The perfection will annoy us (and not in a good way, it will be to the point we stop reading), and you don't want to do that.
User IP Logged

...
Avatar by sunflower_daze on livejournal.
SolidDragon
Dragon Elder


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 544
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #20 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 6:00pm »

It also listed likable flaws as wounds mecha limbs ((MOST MY MAIN FAN CHARAS HAVE MECHA LIMBS!)) or some other disability
User IP Logged

TTEchidna
SFA Founder
SFMasterAdmin


member is offline

Avatar

Happy 15th, Eggman!

AIM
Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1054
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #21 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 6:41pm »

Well, mechanical limbs are a nice plot point, but still. If the whole story is about how cool they are because they have one, then it's pointless.

Again, an example from Star Wars:

Anakin has a mecha-arm, but it's not like it makes him any cooler. Darth Vader has four mecha-limbs and an mecha breathing system. Is he cool? Well, to some. To most, he's threatening. And furthermore, without that breathing system, he'd be dead!

Luke also has the same problem. He was no cooler than he was without the robotic hand, and it drew a bigger paralell between himself and his father at the end of Return of the Jedi.



Also, nobody'll like a character who goes around saying "I GOT STABBED THROUGH THE SIDE AND LIVED!!!!" That's just... not cool.

Humor stories could take that line to advantage though, as right after that line, said character could be stabbed through the side again, and this time not survive to tell the tale.
User IP Logged

Scientology is evil. Please watch this. This is my only request.

Don't support a thief, everyone has to know that eBaum's World steals! Don't let them hypnotize you!
SolidDragon
Dragon Elder


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 544
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #22 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 6:49pm »

yeah but I had morons telling me just because they had mecha limbs they were mary sues so personally I still think the phrase should be removed from RPness althogh I know it wont
User IP Logged

KTgreenstripe
Former SFAdmin

member is offline

Avatar

....I save the game and you lose a million brain cells- Zoe in AHT

AIM
Homepage PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 193
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #23 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 7:34pm »

Honstely..I agree with TTE....Mary-sues or Gary-stu...whatever......are just for fanfictions.....not for real life.

This is certianly starting to become quite a quarrel.....but I think things are starting to easy up now
User IP Logged

User Image


A MAJOR RED FAN!!!!!!
SolidDragon
Dragon Elder


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 544
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #24 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 8:16pm »

I personally despise the phrase
User IP Logged

Darkeiya the Darkocelot
SFA Assistant Founder
Former SFAdmin

member is offline

Avatar

Go away.

AIM
PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 601
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #25 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 8:58pm »

Enough is enough. I declare this enough.

People, this argument is starting to get out of hand. Mary Sues and Gary Stus only exist in fiction. They cannot, do not, and will not exist in real life. But they do exist. And not all traits are likeable, but if a character has a likeable trait and then has an unlikeable trait to counter it, then that balances it.

Honestly...
User IP Logged

I hear voices in my head. And not one of them like you.
SolidDragon
Dragon Elder


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 544
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #26 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 9:09pm »

Has only sympathetic flaws; Mary Sues may be paraplegic, or dangerously na´ve, but are very rarely selfish or petty-minded. Alternatively, they may be outspoken, even rude, and get away with it.

Can do no wrong - or, if she does do anything wrong, has strong justification for it.

Distinctive physical features (odd-coloured eyes, birthmarks, scars, etc.).

Owns an unusual pet (especially, 'one that only she could tame').

Deliberately exotic name.
Name based on that of the author (such as an anagram).

Cultural/racial background very different from her peers (often adopted out of her culture).
Deeply traumatic past.

Attitudes contemporary to the author in a setting where these are unheard of.

Close relationship with a major canonical character (long-lost brother, etc.).

Unwanted connection to a canonical antagonist (virtuous daughter who rebels against her evil father, etc.).

Well-liked by all the canonical protagonists.

Powers or abilities closely paralleling those of a major canon character.

Centrally involved in every part of the story.
I
nvokes powers impossible (or at least unheard-of) in the canon.

If the published universe is set in a different country to the one the author is from, the Mary Sue will probably be from the author's country of origin.

Unusually young compared to the canon characters, especially when the author is young too. May have skills that are less likely in a person that young.

If much of the tension in a series is largely dependent upon a sequence of ongoing character flaws and misunderstandings (such as the works of Rumiko Takahashi), the Mary Sue character almost invariably possesses a 'big picture' view that allows them to solve all of these little problems, thereby sewing up the series in a happily-ever-after fashion

that's the list I've been ranting about fyi I'll let you draw your own conclusions ((the destinctive marks part I find especally moronic))
User IP Logged

Panthergirl
SFA Assistant Founder
Former SFAdmin

member is offline

Avatar

If all the world's a stage....then where's the audience?

AIM
Homepage PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 508
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #27 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 9:33pm »

Quote:
Posted by: SolidDragon Posted on: Today at 8:09pm
Has only sympathetic flaws; Mary Sues may be paraplegic, or dangerously na´ve, but are very rarely selfish or petty-minded. Alternatively, they may be outspoken, even rude, and get away with it.

Can do no wrong - or, if she does do anything wrong, has strong justification for it.

Distinctive physical features (odd-coloured eyes, birthmarks, scars, etc.).

Owns an unusual pet (especially, 'one that only she could tame').

Deliberately exotic name.
Name based on that of the author (such as an anagram).

Cultural/racial background very different from her peers (often adopted out of her culture).
Deeply traumatic past.

Attitudes contemporary to the author in a setting where these are unheard of.

Close relationship with a major canonical character (long-lost brother, etc.).

Unwanted connection to a canonical antagonist (virtuous daughter who rebels against her evil father, etc.).

Well-liked by all the canonical protagonists.

Powers or abilities closely paralleling those of a major canon character.

Centrally involved in every part of the story.
I
nvokes powers impossible (or at least unheard-of) in the canon.

If the published universe is set in a different country to the one the author is from, the Mary Sue will probably be from the author's country of origin.

Unusually young compared to the canon characters, especially when the author is young too. May have skills that are less likely in a person that young.

If much of the tension in a series is largely dependent upon a sequence of ongoing character flaws and misunderstandings (such as the works of Rumiko Takahashi), the Mary Sue character almost invariably possesses a 'big picture' view that allows them to solve all of these little problems, thereby sewing up the series in a happily-ever-after fashion

that's the list I've been ranting about fyi I'll let you draw your own conclusions ((the destinctive marks part I find especally moronic))


Actually, you can get away with one or two of those traits in a fan character. But when you have a character with many of those traits, then it becomes a Sue.

And here's something else to consider: the reader's 'Sue meter'. People have different ideas on when a character becomes a Mary-Sue. For instance, a fan character that one person thinks is a great original character, someone else may decide she's too Sue-ish.

Still, it's a good idea to keep a character's abilities/traits/looks/stuff like that to a minimum.
User IP Logged

Never underestimate the power of old ladies in large groups.

I know they're uncomfortable. I was aware of the risks when I bought the shoes!
TwilightTwinkles
Professor


member is offline

Avatar

:D Certified Spyro Fan :D


PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 309
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #28 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 9:45pm »

Hmm...so then no one can judge that Ember is a Mary Sue, right? She doesn't have those traits and VU hasn't really showed us enough to jump to any conclusions...I think...
User IP Logged

Do not follow where the path may lead. Go, instead, where there is no path and leave a trail.
-Author Unknown-
TTEchidna
SFA Founder
SFMasterAdmin


member is offline

Avatar

Happy 15th, Eggman!

AIM
Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1054
xx Re: Mary Sues do not exsist
« Reply #29 on: Oct 14th, 2005, 9:56pm »

Well said, Panthergirl.

Also, please refer to the following fics:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2508878/1/
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2033015/1/
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2048117/1/

Please follow the fact that they warp the canon and make the Sues somehow appear from nowhere.

And yes, it's the HP fandom. Worst Sue infestation ever.

Now. Enough arguing.




And, erm... SD, you don't have too much to worry about. Most of the Mary-Sues written are by girls anyway, no offence to all of you female SFAers.

And also, no guarantees that you're immune if you're a guy.
User IP Logged

Scientology is evil. Please watch this. This is my only request.

Don't support a thief, everyone has to know that eBaum's World steals! Don't let them hypnotize you!
Pages: 1 2 3  Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Online Dating Services
Online Dating Services
Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| Conforums Support |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls